(Caulking tube large) than natural wood. when you say butt them tight do you mean end to end or side to side… length wise i would go ahead and do it but along side i would only butt them hard tight together if your installing in the warm season.. because it will shrink down. PVC decking is resistant to moisture and rot because synthetic fibers are not absorbent. What percentage of people that you work for are going with composite decks right now? or is it at the very end of the deck. To make this line use the 3-4-5 method, but with the largest denomination possible as per the size of deck being built. mind you different composite brands have differnent mixtures which will effect the expansion. Since the cut ends of capped composite boards expose the wood grain fibers to water this would seem to be a real issue. Shannon is a wood nerd, nuff said. This moisture … Starting at a corner means using a very short piece and there’s too high of a chance for error in the alignment. In exterior concrete, joints widen during cold weather because of cooling contraction and get narrower during hot weather as the concrete expands. All butt joints are tight against each other and against the picture framing surrounding the entire deck. Feel free to tweak the miter angle to keep the overhang even, but this is usually a sign that the framing layout was off. Composite decking doesn't swell or contract to the same extent that real wood decking does (especially if it's fitted correctly). Everlast decking boards will expand and contract at a rate of around 0.3% to 0.5% of the boards. Share your story with Science Buddies! The type of wood used varies by region. Install was done in +12 degrees in the rain this weekend and next week the sun will feel like +30. Guess what? Your email address will not be published. Having a proper gap between boards is very important. The cost of a Trex deck typically runs from $9 to $16 per square foot. I wonder if the are inclined to fracture composite material. It’s imperative to keep the overhang even. Kind Regards. Can anyone tell me about how much ipe will expand and contract ? @DougT: By the way, the reason it's relevant is that the PVC decking will not expand and contract with moisture like wood does, so those concerns are irrelevant. Wood expands and contracts mostly across its width. In a nutshell this species will expand and contract based on climate conditions. If you have really long runs of flat stock, a lap joint will work better than a scarf joint because when it opens up you will still be looking at solid PVC trim If you scarf it, you could possibly look right into a joint and see framing. mainly for the reasons you stated about the chance of fracture.. mind you the camo screws are basically #6 trim screws so they have little to no drawing power. Published: March 12, 2020 | Author: Shannon RogersLeave a Comment. But Seven Trust decking is . The summer heatwave is in full effect across most of the country, and we continue to sell a lot of Ipe decking. Tell me what/ if I did something wrong. Wood movement is driven by moisture primarily and not so much by temperature. All of those wood fibers are like a bundle of straws, and they have sucked up the moisture that is in the air, expanding the board width. How much sun the deck receives, how much rain, temperature swings throughout a day, ventilation beneath the deck, and so much more. It might expand and contract in certain … It was used for thick vinyl stair nosing in a theater on rounded, smooth, painted and sealed concrete stairs. (The spacing determined by the width of the head.) Through the winter the boards didn't shrink at all. I’ve built many azek decks (pvc composite). I tried cleaning to no avail. In the winter I use my speed square as a spacer. “I want a 1/4″ gap between my deck boards” This increase in demand has created in many new composite deck brands such as: ChoiceDek, CorrectDeck CX, MoistureShield, TimberTech, Latitudes Composite Decking, Rhino Deck, Fiberon, GeoDeck and ROYAL Decks. The decking has slots in the side of it. Believe it not, aluminum decking stays cooler in the sun than most other decking materials due to its heat-dissipation properties. Your email address will not be published. I’m guessing you bought it at a big box store where the Staff weren’t overly knowledgeable in the product. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. HOW MUCH DOES TREX DECKING AND RAILING COST? Some prefer a 45 degree bevel cut, but I think that’s too large of an angle. 2″1/2 screw toe nailing from each side. 3’6″ wide (self sticking) from house to over edge 3″ (facia to cover) What do you recommend? Installing composite decking can’t be done like wood decking where you can slam it tight together when it’s still green and then shrinks as it dries. Initially, Trex decking and railing does cost more, board for board, than wood decking and railing. We are having a TimberTech Terrain composite deck installed and it’s being fastened by hidden fasteners so there is a gap in between each board but they have not provided any gap at all between the butt joints. perhaps timbertech has had calls about their product buckling. There should always be a slight gap. It was suggested that a poly butyl tape cover of the floor joists would protect the structure from moisture. Well done. As well; your recommended make/model of composite. Remember the sun is your enemy. Thanks. there are a couple members here who specialzie in high end decks and are located in the U.S where metal framing for decks is becoming more common, I installed composite decking a few months ago using Camo screws. The easy answer is 1/4″. The installer cut the fabic close the wall and wrapped 1″ triangular wood strips ( like 1/4 rnd) and nailed them in. I did a deck two years ago when it was 60 in the morning and 124 on the deck at 4pm. Fasteners that penetrate the sides of the deckboards can dothe same thing. Thanks, the camo system is meant to be used on a full board not the type with a slot in it with a slotted deck boards you need to use Tiger clips or something of that nature there are several different brands on the market they all do the same thing. One of the first decks I did with PVC trim completely fell apart when the 6×6 began to twist after it expanded. The moisture content of the decking boards, how long they have had time to acclimate to your environment. i have dealt with the mold issue, last year i was contacted by a homeowner that had a 2 year old composite deck. The less moisture, the more the wood will contract. I am concerned about water getting into the area where the last board meets the stucco of the house. There are a few other options available that maintain the original wood color and don’t need to be pressure treated because they are naturally rot resistant including Western Red Cedar, Cypress and Redwood. if this is the case check with the builder as to if there will be a trim board which goes around the perimeter of the deck and covers up the exposed ends of the decking. it grows and shrinks along its length. – Rod Fitzsimmons Frey Jul 30 '10 at 15:13 With no drainage comes standing water and a whole new set of movement issues. Now your Chihuahua just fell through the gap between the deck boards! I do not understand this point you made: I inspected the deck in winter (30 degrees) and it looked just like it did when I finished. Once you know the design of the deck, it is important to choose the correct material. This fact will greatly influence how you go about working with the material to reduce waste and make your project easier. It come with the tools to insert the screws and countersink in one operation. Install the first piece flush with the edge of the framing, then the next piece so it overlaps by 1/8″- 1/4″ to create a reveal. Thanks for posting this. This means you will have a more watertight deck. 4. Minimal movement is one key element to Ipe’s incredible longevity. If a homeowner has children, they want it to be usable and safe for their kids with plenty of space for sitting and cooking, while older homeowners without children might use their deck mainly to entertain and relax. Each decking species will have different movement properties, but let’s use Ipe as an example. The PVC trim will cause the deck to overhang the framing by 1-3/4″ to create a 1″ finished overhang. Vekadeck is the best vinyl deck board in the entire industry. By summer time those boards have expanded by more than 1/4″. This can cause it to crack and make your deck potentially unstable. Jeff, When considering a power tool purchase how often do you visit the manufacturer's website before making a purchase? I now have loose boards all over the place. ive found that poly butyl window and door caulking actually works the best for composite trim products when needing to glue it to wood framing. Measure Width in inches. Many carpenters argue over how much angle to use with scarf joints. “I want no gap between the boards” or, Ever notice decks built with PTP where the floor, rail caps or stair treads are cracking? Deck has tuffdeck (exterior vinyl) over 1/2″ plywood with 2″metal flashing over the three edges. 5. “Remember, don’t miter outside corners of the ribbon or post wraps.” could you elaborate more (especially on post wraps). .but if you do it in the summer it will likely buckle. Great info Jeff. proper fastening goes a long way. This wood is cheap and readily available. To make sure that there's enough room between the boards to allow for the small amount of expansion and contraction that can occur on particularly hot or cold days, you should: Thanks Rick, azec flat stock is too unstable to mitre.. it moves far too much with thermal expansion and contraction.. the combination of that and the framing expanding and contracting with moisture content will cause the mitre to not only open up but it can literally blow the azec apart which will then need to be replaced, with smaller stock azec you can mitre it such as moldings.. but the larger the stock the more it will expand as with thermal expansion. The Right Project Needs the Right Tools. Jeff Kirk is a Red Seal journeyman carpenter in Halifax, Nova Scotia. When the less demanding plastic-composite decking appeared on the scene in the 1990s, homeowners happily adopted it, despite the higher price and limited color selection (gray). I hope the composites hold up. The 1/4" expansion on the 20ft board is in lenghth, not width. If you don’t start with a perfect first board, it’s very difficult to have parallel boards. Recently, we outlined the kinds of general tools you will … In reality, boards don’t always expand evenly, and it will vary depending on where the board was located within the original log. Compressed-fibre cement. It is a great irony that the bulk of deck building happens when the thermometer passes 90 degrees. Is this right & something I will just have to live with – I do hope not, as it looks quite unsightly & I have clearly made a bad mistake having this type of decking. Deck faces west. Wood moves, get over it. their virtually non existant in my region, ive never used them. Your thoughts on MOLD when using composites. Edited by Peter Boretsky, Lockheed Martin. What is the best method(s) to attach composite board to metal stringers and minimize fastener heads appearing on the surface. Composite lumber Wikipedia Composite lumber is a material that is a mixture of wood fiber, plastic, and some type of binding . And on the opposite leg they file "V" grooves to evenly space the screws. The plugs are made from the same material as the deck and are included also. As with many things in life, you get what you pay for. So when your customer answers your “when” question and tells you they want a 1/4″ gap in May, then you need to run some numbers and figure out just how much that decking is going to expand and contract throughout the year. Embrace it and plan the gap between that decking accordingly. The amount of expansion and contraction will vary depending upon There are only a few composite deck installation steps that might require a new tool. Solid composite decking will expand and contract more with temperature changes due to its greater mass. If metal stringers are acceptable we need to have them located on 12″ centre on a 6′ span so we would need 6 stringers. I also use it on the ribbon, stair risers and stringers. Started with a little over hang over the front edge and applied 5″ of pl400 on each strap as I put down each 20′ board all material installed tight. Know that wider boards expand and contract more than narrower ones. There is no difference in the performance of solid and hollow composite decking with temperature changes. His work has been focused on high end residential renovation and custom new home construction... Read more. That’s why the board ends should never be installed tight against one another. It puts two 2.5″ screws in every joist for real good sheer strengh. Composite Decking vs Wood - GardenStructure.com › Home › Articles - Similar to Composite Decking vs Wood - GardenStructure.com Jan 6, 2014 Many millions of dollars are spent to glamorize composite decking .. Virgin Vinyl decking does expand and contract a great deal and this Jeff, I’ve read through this comment string and just thought I’d commend you for continuing to respond to the posted comments, it’s been over 4 years. Veka invented Cellular PVC decking years ago, and in recent years they’ve beefed it up and added an ASA (acrylic) capstock to it to further help resist fading. If you use a picture frame detail, you should start with the perimeter boards so you have a hard edge to measure for your field boards. The traditional material has been pressure-treated wood. That widening gap will make any deck owner upset, but now let’s imagine the opposite scenario where the deck was installed with a 1/4″ gap in the dead of winter. For butt joints, butt together on a warm day or leave a 1/8" gap on a cold day and fasten close to the [length] edge w/ two screws per board. If the boards are running out of kilter by more than 5/16”, it’s important to immediately correct them. Wet air expands wood, dry air shrinks it. What is the solution you ask? Remember, don’t miter outside corners of the ribbon or post wraps. Join our growing forum with over 3,000 posts per week and start winning. They also want to be able to easily clean their deck with a pressure washer. TimberTech states you must leave a gap of 1/8″ at all butt joints. 40’wide 11′ deep with 7’x7′ bay window in the middle. according to our dealer we buy more composite and azec than any other company in the region. Seems to be a significant issue. honestyly kevin, i do not know about metal stringers. Edmonton where temps drop to -40 to +32. It is important to recognize that composite decking expands and contracts with heat and cold. Lumberock® expands/contracts on the butt ends of the boards and requires a small gap between the boards to accommodate this. Kristin Strong, Science Buddies. Or if you are lazy like me, you can just find an app for that. Composite decking does seem prevalent in our area. The posts, porch roofs and the beam of the roof have PVC trim. i provided the labour.. a year later no issues with the new decking.. the brand that i use is Royale Board, its solid pvc. One important note for using PVC trim is not to use standard galvanized nails. I was thinking a similar colored outdoor caulk would work. This is where the installer tucked his wrapped pieces(no silicone either) Please let us know how things went. In the simplest terms, wood decks are not built in climate-controlled environments and are susceptible to expansion and contraction due to moisture. Once all the handrail posts have been framed, the next step in installing composite decks is to start laying the boards. As long as you screw off each board as you go (not just tack and finish later), you can butt the boards tight with no ill effects. We are relatively dry in Colorado bu the Sun takes a toll on exterior woodwork. The hotter its gets, the more it will expand. It has been layed horizontally but where the planks have been cut for joins, you can clearly see the hollow cut ends and the wooden joist? You are here: Some blind fastening systems are installed with a specialty nailer and others require a unique driver tip for their screws. honestly I’m kind of confused as to why the contractor would have Caulked the decking to where it meets the house that’s a very uncommon practice it leads me to believe that a ledger flashing was omitted which is a major no no in deck construction. Rolled out roofing ice barrier. believe it or not more than 70% of the decks we do seem to be composite. He completed a 4-1/2 year apprenticeship in 2008. Credits. Quartersawn boards barely move across the width whereas flatsawn boards will move the most (the examples above use flatsawn boards since this is most common). How Boards Expand and Contract: When installing composite decking it is important to remember that it expands and contracts; the hotter it gets the more it will expand. But plastic decking has its problems. Just to make things even more difficult, wood is anisotropic. Thank you. The screenshots pictured here come from The Woodshop Widget, and it is a really handy app for the web or your phone that can save you a lot of heartache. Remember, PVC trim doesn’t react well with hot and cold climates and it will expand and contract which causes it to open up or buckle. Follow these guidelines carefully, as they will ensure there is adequate air flow and drainage at all times. What colors and styles are available? Composite decking comes in wide variety of colors, textures, … Many composite decking products have been known to expand and contract readily. When it shrinks in the winter you will not see right inside the joint; however, this is only for flat stock. Now you can get away with that 1/4″ gap in the winter, and you will find that it remains very close to the same throughout much of the year. Temperature fluctuations: PVC decking will expand and contract with temperature changes. All my composite deck installations get the complete PVC trim treatment. Composite deckingwill expand and contractwith temperature changes more than How homeowners relax on their deck varies by person. Having a proper gap between boards is very important. Fast forward to the dead of winter, and the temperature is now 25° with the humidity around 25-30%. Last year they used that technique on a White Cedar deck. Ipe, being so hard, will expand and contract some, but very little. Ripped 2″×4″×10’pressure treated wood to 2″×4″×10′ and strapped the floor every 16″ and to edges. I guess I ‘m in over my head, I have put the picture frame on the deck and have split the deck in 2 secton ,being 33 ft long ,it looks good,but one side decided to lift it a bit to straighten some of the joist and now the outside picture frame on that side is pitch a little downward on the outside edge,should I remove all the 12 pieces by 16 ft and try and fix it or is it to late to bother,I had some high and low spots and tried to correct them with 5 pieces of deck on when I jack it up a bit,don’t know what to do, About the last comment I split it in 2 and made to decking pieces go the opposite way,16’s on each side it looks good ,not sure if I should remove all of it now and try to fix it, its hard to say without seeing it.. sounds like it might be differential movement in the deck.. certain areas the framing is shrinking quicker than others causing a variation in thickness. Thanks. Because decks are outside, they are continuously exposed to changing humidity. if you mean the deck boards themselves you can gap them as composite typically doesnt grow and shrink in its width. I read pl premium and gorilla glues fai, ed the hammer test. zero chance of mold growing on it. Your comments? If it’s fairly new by all means do it, if you’re going to use it color matched caulking to seal the ends before you go buy a large amount of tubes I would by one tube first and do a test piece just to be sure it matches otherwise use the provided sealer by the manufacturer, the use of the self sealing membranes definitely work it’s not very common in my area what the decks I’ve seen with this have definitely lasted longerI know that grace makes a version of Vycor which is specifically sized for exactly this purpose otherwise you can buy 4 inch or 6 inch rolls and cut them to fit by slicing them in half. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of … As a woodworker, furniture maker, podcaster, blogger, teacher, and Director of Marketing for one of the oldest Lumber companies in the country, he really can't stop talking about wood and the beautiful ways it can be used. No brackets anywhere, just screws. But that answer doesn’t take into account a lot of factors and can pose problems further down the road. Your email address will not be published. soiunds like your reffering to a totally different product than what this article is about.. really it shouldnt be in this thread. Composite decking does not splinter or crack and does not become as slippery as solid plastic in winter months. You can still face screw which gives the deck some lateral stability. I have a cedar deck I’m going to redo with Azek. ive used teh camo system thats sold at Home depot on a wood deck. Plastic decking, which is 100 percent recyclable such as Azek, looks like wood. can you see into the open webs of teh decking where pieces of decking butt together so to run the full length of the deck. In a perfect world we can assume even expansion in both direction, so each board would swell 1/8″ on both sides. With composite decking you have to create the gap right from the get go. I saw your question about Azek deck expanding on contractortalk. You can use a chalk line to mark the measurement. The PVC trim had to be torn off completely and replaced. 3. All of these factors will effect the amount of space you put between your deck boards. Composite decking can mimic the look of natural wood. In the article entitled “Swelling Capstock Decking” in the Sept 2011 issue of Professional Deck Builder, it was stated “that someone very soon would launch a product specifically meant to seal ends and cuts on capped WPCs”… Has that happened? 2. i am aware that composite does grow in its length as it warms up but i have never gapped butt joints. They seem like they could provide lateral stability. There are so many fastener systems to sort through now. I was wondering what you believe is the best retaining system? Because it won’t shrink or expand in changing temperatures, it doesn’t gap. Because of this growing trend, composite decks have become the most popular type of deck. I have some projects coming up that I am using PVC for exterior applications and I will keep in mind what you said to watch out for. Required fields are marked *. Whenever there is a freeze the moisture in the wood expands by about 10%. Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death . Do you thinks its ok to butt the ends of Azek pvc boards tight or say a 64th” gap? How do you account for the gap that is created due to the different thickness created with the thinner Azek deck board where it meets the stucco of my house? You can either create a bigger gap on the end of the smaller measure or reduce the gap on the end of the greater measure. However, concrete does indeed expand when it gets hot or when the moisture content changes. You still want a little gap just to let rainwater drain through. This question may be asked more than any other when it comes to installing a deck. The current trend among homeowners is for a maintenance free deck that can withstand rain, snow and the intense sun. The wood itself does very little expansion or contraction, however the moisture in the wood expands and contracts quite a bit. During the winter, when the humidity is significantly lower, the wood will dry out and reduce in size. Yes, plastic inherently expands and contracts with changes in temperature, however the mineral-fill used in our boards reduces the amount of thermal expansion that will occur. Next, ensure your mitres on the outside corners are tight along the inside corners depending on the shape of the deck. For a herringbone design you have to snap a line that runs 45 degrees to the outside ribbon. How much space to leave between deck boards? If we pick a day in early October and assume 50% humidity and 65°, then the Ipe decking will have shrunk approximately 3/16 of an inch. Comment document.getElementById("comment").setAttribute( "id", "a41d6b46218c464fdfcfb063cbbad20c" );document.getElementById("h5f3baa1da").setAttribute( "id", "comment" ); Quality Wood ProductsHardwoods, Decking, Plywood, Millwork, Copyright © 2020 J Gibson McIlvain Company |. on the ends i would keep things tight as the boards will only shrink as the temperature drops.. theres nothing worse than going back to a composite job and seeing huge gaps where things have shrunk so much, Hi Sir, I’m building a Timber Tech deck and am not a carpenter but I have had a carpenter help at times. I bought the same tape that you put around a window opening before you put in a new window. As temperatures fluctuate, composite deck boards will naturally experience thermal expansion and contraction. During more humid seasons, like summer, decking will soak up more moisture, causing the boards to expand. An 1/8" is fine between boards running parallel. Compressed-fibre cement is the latest kid to arrive on the alternative … If you are using a molding, you should definitely miter it and use either PVC trim glue or white poly butyl caulking that will match the color of the PVC trim and it fill in gaps. Detailed Guide to Installing Composite Decks. In other words, the wood will move, but only in one direction (contracting instead of further expanding). I like the look of hidden fasteners but we find we need to add sway bracing when we use them. Instead use cortex treated screws with PVC trim plugs or stainless steel nails. When installing composite decking, I use PVC trim on all pressure treated framing. just how much of the caulking is smeared is it over the entire surface of the deck or just one piece of decking as its probably easier just replace that one piece of decking instead of painting. Your decking has now shrunk another couple of 16ths of an inch, and that half inch decking gap is closer to 5/8″. As idyllic as your backyard deck could be, maintaining that elevated expanse of lumber can be a downright chore. It’s faded with corrosion holes. Ever have a customer tell you the following when beginning a deck installation? Are we going to have a problem with swelling when it get really hot and humid. i typically gap the boards with a regular vinyl siding hand nail. When it gets warmer that moisture will contract by … For herringbone decks the best place to start is the center of the deck because it’s the longest run. We are now working on the stairs and would like to go with metal stringers but find very limited information or details on using composite board on metal stringers. Contractor cleaned smearing and recaulked but look at it now it looks ugly smeared and old. My favorite type of wood is ACQ Spruce for its strength; however it is not the most visually appealing. Like a stopped watch that is only right twice a day, those deck boards are going to expand and contract as the seasons change, and no matter what you do, the gap between the boards will only be consistent for a certain window of time. If the deck is installed in the winter, then you definitely need that 1/4″ gap and in the humid climates you might want to bump that out a 32nd or a 16th of an inch for insurance. Solid composite decking will expand and contract more with temperature changes. © Robert Bosch Tool Corporation 2014, all rights reserved. What are your comments on these situations. High-end composite decking is often encased in a plastic shell that resists fading, staining, scratching, and mold. Joints were mitered on the picture frame. Measuring the Boards: As you are installing your composite decking, you need to back-measure and front-measure to ensure you’re keeping the same distance on the ends of the deck from the wall, and in the middle. Also, what is the best adhesive to bond pvc wrapped composite boards with wood or concrete. Personally, I use a 30 degree cut because it moves less and there is less of a chance of shrinkage because less surface is created. This means your starting perimeter board’s inside edge needs to be exactly 3-3/4″ from the outside of the framing. This is a result of the sun. To investigate how gases expand and contract with temperature, using latex balloons. It is painful to see a great wood deck that was installed 15 years ago showing its age. My carpenters space decking using a cheap plastic speed square. This is why you find so much debate on how to set the spacing between your decking, because the answer truthfully is, “it depends.”. The wall is parched stucco that comes down to 1″ short of the deck. This eventually leads to boards drooping between the joists. Wood movement percentages are published on our web site on every species page to help you determine just how much movement you could face. There are many choices from a straight run of boards, a picture-framed deck or a herringbone design (click here to see examples). You can also split the difference by snapping a line through the length of the deck which shifts both ends and avoids creating a speed wobble. Deck Layout: The most first and most important step for installing composite decks is layout. If you are lucky, that original 1/4″ gap is gone. You can’t stop it.
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